By baseball’s modern viewership standards — and the standards of some other major professional sports — the World Series was a huge success.

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Chickens outnumber people 4:1, they have more in common, anatomically, with dinosaurs than humans, you can mail order up to 350 different varieties of chicks, and roosters really are much meaner than hens.

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Interview w/ Paul Bloche by Steven Reed

The ministry of Paul Baloche has literally touched the lives of millions of people around the globe. His 1997 song, “Open The Eyes of My Heart” is still in the CCLI top 100. We caught up with Paul over the phone this week to ask him about life, keys to longevity in ministry, and about his new album that just released on October 7th. With the bustling sounds of a New York street in the background, one of the most influential worship leaders humbly imparted some incredibly massive wisdom for any worship leader to follow. How to stay fresh, hear the voice of God, how to reach millennials, where the best worship songs come from and much more. Read the interview here and get ready to take some notes. 

All About Worship: Paul thanks for taking the time to talk to us today.

Your ministry has had such a massive platform over so many decades that some people consider you the ‘Godfather of Modern Worship’ and yet others may just now be learning about you.

When you meet people for the first time how do you describe what you do?

Paul: I try to help others worship through songs and training resources. Really, I just want to help others worship. That’s the simple answer. I leave it up to them if they want to Google my name and see the rest.

It also depends if they are a stranger or a believer. If my Jewish neighbor were to ask me, “Hey Paul, what do you do?” To keep the conversation alive I would maybe say, “I’m a musician. That I play guitar and write songs”, cause you if you tell someone right off the bat that, “I do Christian music” it shuts it down right away.

All About Worship:  For those of us who have such a rich history in worshiping God to the songs you’ve written, what is your response to the gratitude people express? 

Paul: I think people are very kind and I’m always super encouraged in my spirit, not for my ego but in my spirit. I’m especially encouraged when people comment about the training resources that I made years ago by faith, as it almost seemed presumptuous to make them. I thought, “Who am I to make a guitar video? You know, Phil Keaggy should be making this,” but it was just a desire to pass on some things I’ve learned.

It’s really gratifying to meet people, who are in their 20’s whose dad had a set of my VHS videos, back before YouTube and all. To have them say something like, “I grew up learning guitar and worship from watching your videos and now I’m a worship pastor at such a church in such a city.” That just blows me away

Then there is another group of folks that have been touched by a certain song and again, usually, they are very kind. They will share some personal story about some sort of difficult time in their life when maybe one of the songs really helped them to process and get through. That again is humbling and super encouraging.

But for myself, I feel disconnected at this point. Not trying to be Mr. Humble here, but it’s a true feeling. I had a part in delivering those songs, almost like a mid-wife or something. I kind of helped birth the song but eventually the song grows up and becomes and adult and gets translated into 10 different languages. It becomes objective and I can appreciate it like, “Hey good for you little song, way to go!”

All About Worship: What does God have you doing in the season of life?

Paul: God has me continuing to be a husband of what will be 30 years next year, a dad, and recently a granddad. Just had a little grandson, so that’s on my mind. I want to stay healthy physically and spiritually. Live a healthy life to be available to my immediate family and have the energy to serve in ministry until God taps me on the shoulder and says that I’m done.

New York become home for us last year. After 26 years in the same church, same neighborhood, we moved to New York really because our kids grew up and then moved to here and to Philadelphia. Seeing the empty bedrooms and having the feeling like 25 years is maybe a good time, while the church is healthy and after the 2nd generation of worship leaders had been trained, to hand it over. We tested the waters a bit and thought, “let’s go down the road.”

You know Proverbs 3:6 says, “In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your steps.” We’d all love a parchment to fall out the sky with the will of God written on it. Usually, it’s a bit more difficult. I find taking little steps towards the leaning of your heart, while acknowledging the Lord daily, and if you don’t feel any resistance or breaks then you should keep moving in that direction.

It’s almost like your computer when you’ve got all these windows and tabs open and it’s getting kind of crazy. You think, “I need to close things down and reboot.” That’s kind of what we did. Rebooted. Here we are. Plugged into a local church. Not working there or on staff but I attend and worship. Then occasionally I’ll look up and see they need a bass player and I jump in. It’s been fun. I’ve led a couple times when the main person is out of town. Just recently I’ve become a staff member of a church in Chicago where I lead 8-10 times a year and are a part of their team, the projects, and get to speak into the life of their ministry.

All About Worship: You’ve led worship around the world, recorded many albums, written many songs, and helped so many people with your training. Is there any one of those that is more your passion than the others?

Paul: I do love the training, equipping, and the encouraging of leaders, especially next generation leaders. So it’s Pastoral. I always feel like more of a pastor anyway.  It’s not like I’m an amazing singer anyway. I’m good enough to lead worship and I’m really glad I get to do a project. Those are all wonderful. 

All About Worship: Has that changed over time?

Paul: It’s almost like the process of breathing. There is an inhale and an exhale. It feels like the leading worship, the prayer, the preparation, and the leading is like an inhale. Then your lungs expel the air and then out comes new songs, training, and ministry. You kind of can’t have the one without the other. You can’t exhale all the time. I can’t see myself not leading worship because to me it’s where the best songs begin. You’re not trying to write a clever song but you’re just worshiping God and then, in the midst of worship, out of your mouth comes a line that sounds sincere. You say, “Hey that’s worth spending some time with and seeing if a song might arise.”

All About Worship: Would you say there is a key to your relevance and longevity of ministry?

Paul: Adapt or die: musically and spiritually! Just having your natural and spiritual ear to the wind to discern when things are changing. I would say that in the last 5 years I’m just paying attention to the 20 some-things, for one because my kids are that age. I’m looking for the things most of them resonate with and the things they have rejected in terms of their expression of worship. 20 some-things don’t have much patience for entertainment. They are not really looking to be entertained, in general. Though there will always be a percentage of people who are. They are looking for something authentic and transparent even if it doesn’t all look pretty and shinny. They would rather have the honesty. So I’m challenged by that and am trying to grow. Even in my spiritual life I want to continue to grow and adapt and not be stuck.

I’m having an open mind to the idea that what may have been effective in ministry before may not be as effective now. What might be a bit outdated could be worth being updated. I’m not saying that you got to be a 25 year old kid again and make a fool of yourself, but I’m saying just be open and pay attention. 

All About Worship: Your new album drops on October 7th. What is the focus of this project?

Paul: The focus has never really changed for me. I’m a local church guy, that all I know. I never had an agent and never had a manager. I’ve always seen myself as a local church guy and not an artist. Not that there’s anything wrong with being an artist. There are true artist out there, but I’m a worship pastor that gets to do a worship album every year and half. The focus is always to help others worship. I want to write songs that when people read the lyric, when they hear the song, and feel the experience it helps them engage emotionally and spiritually in every way.  I would say that sounds generic and yet it’s not. It’s always been the focus. It’s sounds too simple but that’ the bull’s-eye.

All About Worship: What’s you’re favorite song on this project and why?

Paul: That’s hard. It’s like saying whose your favorite child? That sounds like, “Oh come on now Paul,” but it’s still really fresh. These 12 songs have received a lot of time, attention, and care over the last 9 months, it’s still so early. In each one of them there are things about it that I look at and say, “Yep, that’s why you made the team.”  If the album is like a football team you intentionally make them different because you don’t want 12 quarterbacks. You need some running backs and some blockers and someone to play defense. So I think on an album, I like to shoot for the variety.  We need some outer court songs. I find those challenging to write. An up-tempo happy song that‘s not cheesy. I feel like “Psalm 92” and “Found In You” are two songs you could start your service with.

You can’t have an entire album of intense songs, but there are a couple of songs that are deeper. “I Will Worship You” and “Your Mercy” are more confessional, more about acknowledging the reality of life. Most of us have the season where we’ve lost our way or turned our eyes and got distracted but God, Your mercy.

All About Worship: We asked some people to submit questions via social media and so here are a few questions:

@sarahahopkins asked: What is the most important lesson you have learned in ministering to others through music?

Paul: The most important lesson is appreciating the mystery of how powerful music is in the context of God’s spirit. I’m always surprised because, as a musician you’re around it so much that, we can forget how much of an effect it has on people. I’ve found myself diminishing that. Then I’m just amazed when you hear from people about how they are impacted by the song you’ve written or the songs you’ve led. Like someone coming up in tears to the worship pastor and saying how much it means to them.

@jeffdlivsey asked: What are some “North Stars” or “Guiding Principles” you have?

Paul: So heavy, but I like being put on the spot here. Wow! It’s sounds so cliché but you got to start with the word of God. In terms of a “North Star” it is becoming steeped in the scriptures. Doing Col 3:16, “letting the word of Christ dwell in you richly.” I know in my 20’s I did a lot of studying and memorization. We were also writing a lot of scripture memory songs at the time. There are so many scriptures that I can’t forget. I’ve read them and sang them so many times that as soon as I hear the first two words I know them. It needs to be said because it can be overlooked. We’re looking for the next book from the next leader and that’s all good but we really need to be reading a Psalm, a Proverb, and something out of the New Testament every day. Then you can work the Old Testament stories and the Pentateuch. Try to memorize passages. I used to use 3x5 cards. Sermon on the mount, Mathew 5-7, is so rich. Get it off the page and into your heart, off the page and into your mind. If you read through the NIV then next year do another version. Be a student of the word. Listen to the Bible on tape. Not that they have those anymore. Ha that’s hilarious, cassette tape!

@KelsieR95 asked: Worship leaders have a fine line between leading worship and performing. How have you found the middle ground?

Paul: I think this answer has evolved over the years. It’s too easy to say, “Oh yeah we don’t want to be performing we just want to lead worship.” Which of course, but we can’t deny, whether we call it performing or not, there is a role to play. I liken it to a waiter or waitress. When they come to your table and they have a good attitude and they offer great service. Is he performing? He’s bringing the best version of himself because he has a role to play. Maybe he’s having a bad day but because of what his job is, he has to bring the best.

As worship leaders we have to comfortable. The performing aspect would include being able to stand on a platform with an instrument or microphone and relax in that role. It needs to be like driving a stick shift. To be able to put the clutch in and shift gears without even thinking about it. To get there, we can’t kid ourselves, you have to practice performance. In a mirror or videotape your services and see how you come across. Maybe you have some weird quirk or something is a little awkward. You can even ask some close friends about things that seem funny to them.

You practice your performance just like you’d practice your guitar so it’s become more realistic, more natural, and you don’t have to think about it anymore. Then you can be relaxed and be thinking about what’s going in the room. What do I sense from the Lord? What feels like the right thing to do? Do I pray or go onto the next song?

You’ll be a much better ministry when the practical is second nature. Well, that is, becoming second nature because frankly I still struggle. I have to play in two days and I get a little nervous. I need to practice so I don’t choke. It never goes away.

Check out more about Paul Baloche, his music, and training resources on his website http://www.paulbaloche.com

It makes perfect sense to all who know Sarah Reeves that she is where she is and doing what she is doing. But the journey it took to get her here has not been an easy or uneventful one. I got the chance to visit with Sarah about her recent single release, Nowhere, and God’s ongoing story in her life.

Having been raised in the church and music industry by her record producer father and mother, a nurse, at the age of 15 Sarah encountered the presence of God in a way she never had before. She knew at that moment that He was calling her into a life of music and ministry. She dove head first into leading worship within her local church and by 18 was signed to a label and touring the country leading worship. After some time, she met and married her husband, Philip Kothlow, and decided for a season to step out of music and sort of discover herself and “live some real life . . . away from music”. She took a job working as a preschool teacher and Philip was an electrician at the time. A couple of years into marriage, she found herself in a place she never thought she’d be.

“About three years ago . . . I remember us just reaching this point in our marriage where we were facing wall after wall, and struggle after struggle. We came to this place where we found ourselves on the verge of divorce and we knew at that point we had to make a drastic change. We were both working full-time jobs . . . and we decided to step away from those. We went away and really just kind of started over. Focused on each other. Focused on God and putting Him at the center of our marriage. We learned how to be married and fell in love all over again. During that time . . . I started putting out YouTube covers and slowly God started to open up doors again into music. Things were really starting to happen. He had redeemed our marriage and now he was redeeming my artistry again. What I thought was over was just beginning.”

Today, Philip is Sarah’s manager and together they are storming back with a fresh perspective on music and a renewed passion for worship.  Nowhere dropped April 7th in anticipation of her full album release with Word Records in the fall.

When talking about the direction of this new project Sarah said, “God has given me this specific sound . . . but there’s always been this inner battle between being a worship leader and being an artist. There’s this style that I love but I felt the pressure to always keep it straight down the middle if I wanted to be a worship leader. About a year and a half ago, a friend sent me a track . . . and I wrote this song to it that I just loved and something in me came alive in that moment. Through that song I found so much clarity as if God said, ‘Sarah, I’ve given you this sound and you don’t have to choose . . . I’ve given you this gift for you to merge the two together.’

The production is very electronic and pop and hopefully will push the limits of worship leaders to write and produce outside of the box.”

When it comes to songwriting, Sarah always tries to “write songs that come from a place of things (she’s) walked through or that would encourage other people.” Her hope is to stretch stylistically and for people to not put the stereotypical worship mindset on this project, but rather to think bigger and more creatively.

A lot of her musical style and depth of worship comes from influences such as Jeff Deyo (former lead singer of Sonic Flood who, funnily enough, introduced Sarah to her now husband), Bethel Music, Glades, Ellie Goulding, and Coldplay. Personally, some of the people who have helped shape and mold her into the person she is today are her mother, who has been a huge prayer warrior, her husband, who knows how to encourage and challenge her to be a better person and artist, and her pastors Henry and Alex Seeley from The Belonging, a church that meets in Nashville.

Given the journey that it’s taken to get where she is today, we asked Sarah what words of encouragement she would give to those coming up as artists and worship leaders now who might be growing weary of the grind.

“One thing that I’ve learned came from a message that Alex Seeley preached a while back called Surrender To The Process, and it’s just been something that I’ve clung to and have had to learn how to do. I had to let my dreams die and had to come to a place where I had completely surrendered my heart, my dreams, my career, everything that I wanted . . . and once I came to that point, He finally was enough for me. I think when we get to that point, it just doesn’t matter . . . our craft, our music, everything that we can see . . . it’s amazing. And if it happens, awesome, but if it doesn’t happen, it’s okay. Our purpose is eternity and to build the Kingdom of God with whatever He’s given us in the moment. Be faithful in those little things and surrender to whatever process He wants to take you through.”

Make sure to check out Sarah’s single, Nowhere, available anywhere music is sold. And make sure to keep an eye out for other singles she will release as her full project date this fall gets closer.

For thousands of younger Gen Xers and older Millennials who were raised in the church, much of our maturing as worshippers is marked by the poetic lyrics and fluid vocals of the duo known as Shane & Shane. I personally remember having Be Near on repeat during a difficult season of transition in my personal life. And I don’t know about you, but just about every guy in my high school youth group could be found working their double strum on acoustic guitar at any given moment.

But it wasn’t just their original songs that sunk deep into the hearts of their listeners. Barnard and Everett also have this uncanny ability to take songs recorded years earlier or made popular by big names such as Hillsong or Passion and make them fresh and accessible to our generation of worshippers. 

They are capitalizing on this significant gift through their latest ministry effort called The Worship Initiative (TWI). I recently got the chance to talk with Shane Barnard at length and hear more about their journey through ministry, how they juggle it all, and their hopes for the future. Hopefully you’ll find the perspective and insight he offered up as encouraging as I did.

When I asked him to share the story of how the vision of The Worship Initiative came to be, he jumped right into an impassioned explanation. They had been doing the touring, writing, and recording thing for years and gotten to experience worship from and with just about every kind of stage, venue, and demographic. As they got to know hundreds of worship leaders from everywhere you can think of, they began to see a gaping hole . . . that being the understanding of the true weight of the calling of the worship leader.

A scripture that they’d read hundreds of times and even used as a sort of mantra throughout their ministry also played an enormous role in their starting TWI. Colossians 3:16 says,

“Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom through psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with gratitude in your hearts.”

One day a word jumped off their pages in a way that opened their eyes afresh – THROUGH. These times of worship they were leading on a regular basis were not just a means to an end. They actually serve as one of the primary ways the Church conveys the message of Jesus to raise up a generation of Christ followers who can change the world. Yet somehow, this position has gotten watered down to nothing more than a song leader in most church settings. They suddenly felt a whole new level of responsibility.

So the two set out to discover a way to pour into worship leaders around the world, both spiritually and practically. They started by taking a more personal look at their own gifts and bents. Barnard says about Everett, “I can’t think of a better salesman or evangelist . . . He’s just loud, funny, always cutting up, and can win anybody over to do anything . . . and unleashing that in an overseer role and our relational PR person has been awesome to watch. I think God dumped the PR side and evangelist side of Shane so hard into him that I think we still have yet to see what God is going to do in that regard.” Whereas for Barnard, his skill in songwriting and producing contends with just about anyone you could name. Over the last 20 years of ministering together, they’ve learned to “embrace who God has made [them] and not be disappointed in that anymore but just know that this is how God has made [them].” They’ve worked incredibly hard to figure out how to balance all of the overlap between their personal and professional lives, which is inevitable when you’ve worked so closely together for that long. “You would think we would have some kind of system after 20 years, but we are getting better. I would say that a few words come to mind . . . simplifying, strategizing, doing things on purpose. These are the things that have kind of been a banner over our lives the last two or three years.”

For a long time, all the different aspects of their lives were spread out all over the DFW area of Texas. Their studio was far south, much of their steady worship leading opportunities were at a church in the heart of Dallas, and they were living a good jump from either of those. So they are in the process of bringing all of those components closer together so that doing life with the families, church community, and ministry partners is easier. Taking this step has made it easier to grow their efforts with The Worship Initiative more rapidly.

So what is The Worship Initiative and what does it look like for someone to participate or take advantage of these resources?

Basically, an individual can pay a yearly fee and access a list of over 150 (and constantly growing) worship songs that each have multiple tutorial videos and charts accompanying them. These videos break down how to play the songs in different keys, on different instruments, and with varying skill levels. A worship leader on staff at a church can also pay an annual group fee, based on the number of people, for his team to be able to access everything as well. There are also craft training videos for everything from the different instruments and vocals to tech/production and using the number system. If that’s not enough, the site has an entire section dedicated to heart training, where they break down all the different spiritual and practical components for worship leading with the likes of John Piper and Ben Stuart. There are even creative devotionals to accompany every song on the different TWI records. TheWorshipInitiative.com truly is a wealth of knowledge and wisdom for anyone looking to grow as a leader or team member, and there are still exciting things to come. Shane shared a bit about what’s ahead for TWI. “Our next phase of The Worship Initiative is to create what we’re calling learning paths. Some people love to be given a world of information to explore on their own. But most people would really love to be told what to do to get from point A to point B. We will take our existing content and add to it and give them a year long path to stick to and see measurable growth in both skill and leadership.”

Given the length of time and the platform they’ve had over these last two decades, I asked Shane how he feels his perspective of worship both personally and within the Church has evolved over the years.

“I think worship, and even the idea of worship, has come a long way, in a good way. I think we’ve seen a pretty good uptick on understanding the Romans 12:1 life of worship. I often think back to a time when I was leading worship in a basement or college dorm room for several years, and it was always the oddest songs ever.” He recalled singing, with hands lifted, Make It Right by Kenny Marks (and yes, I might’ve gotten a solid 30 second serenade over the phone . . . it’s fine!) and other obscure songs that really had no purpose or meaning to the one worshipping. Yet, what we see all throughout the Psalms is “this gut-wrenching, very honest, it is okay to pour out your heart to the one who cares for you mentality. . . and that language is okay.” He remembered hearing the words to Breathe for the first time, where it says “I’m desperate for you,” and thinking “is this okay to have this kind of language in front of people? But yes, it is okay even in a congregation or corporately to say ‘I am thirsty for You in a dry land where there is no water.’ In fact that can be really helpful to the person sitting next to you. That can be us ‘singing spiritual hymns and songs to one another’, just that opening up of the heart and the embracing of singing those honest songs and using them to allow ‘the message of Christ to dwell among us richly.’”

Learn more about The Worship Initiative, as well as Shane & Shane, at www.theworshipinitiative.com. Here at All About Worship, we believe in what these guys are doing and the ministry they are fostering. We can’t wait to partner with them in the future as God continues opening those doors.

If you aren’t yet familiar with her, the name to be looking out for in the coming year without a doubt is Dara Maclean. With two studio records behind her, the Lord is paving a fresh path for her ministry that hearts everywhere are sure to resonate with.
 
She’s been singing and doing music and ministry since she was seven years old. In her words, “it was not good sounding by any means. I remember at seven, I ran into my dad’s office and I had a walls of Jericho type song, and he applauded me because he’s a really good dad, but I’m sure it was really rough. But I felt called to the industry from a very young age and that has been everything for me.”

Having grown up in the church, she experienced first-hand that church really can be what you need regarding your maturing as a believer, a worshiper, and a leader. In her community she had “the opportunity to really fail forward in the sense of what not to do as a worship leader or youth leader. That was school for me in a lot of ways. God just knows how He uniquely creates us. I had to learn by doing and was forced into situations where experience didn’t get me there, but only the Lord could do it.”
 
“My parents looked at me and did NOT say, ‘You can be anything when you grow up.’ They said ‘there’s a specific calling on your life, and until you learn to hear from the Lord yourself, we’re going to help you.’ It has never been a question as I’ve pursued that calling.”
 
Some of Dara’s musical influences include Crystal Lewis, Martha Munizzi, CeCe Winans, and Brian & Jenn Johnson. These influences combined with her own experience in the recording industry served as the inspiration behind her and her husband’s heart to be a safe place for creatives to grow and learn and get tools to pursue their passions without having to step outside of the church.
 
Right now Dara is in the process of writing for a live worship record. It’s something that she is taking her time with in order to make it the very best it can possibly be. “For me personally I had to get off of the pump-out-a-record-every-two-years train. I could never take away from what the Lord had done on my journey, but I just had to stop and say ‘this project is worth it, I want more, I want another level, and that just takes time.’” Also around that same time, Dara married her husband Donnie Petty, so her life focus began shifting dramatically.
 
Leading up to the live recording, they have been and will continue to release one single at a time as a build up to the full project. Blameless was released in the fall of 2016 and then her latest song, Ashes, hit the scene just in time for Easter this year.

Along with being a songwriter and recording artist, Dara and her husband serve at a church in Fort Worth, TX. When it comes to balancing a music career and pastoring in the local church context, Dara says that it’s not something she did very well for a long time. “I became very overwhelmed. In the past I’ve been an all-or-nothing person and the Lord has helped me tremendously. I had to learn to not be a perfectionist when I didn’t need to be, and to stop carrying the weight of things I didn’t need to carry. I was putting all of that pressure on myself, so the balance began to come when I sort of ‘got over myself.’ God is perfectly faithful and fit and He has qualified us for what He has called us to do. Not by might and not by power, but by the Spirit. When working in the first two only, you grow weary in well-doing.”
 
The story behind her most recent release, Ashes, is a very personal one. Dara takes songwriting very seriously and carries the full weight and responsibility of her name being attached to anything. So when she walks into a co-write, nine times out of ten she already has a theme in mind, if not a full set of bones for an idea. But this particular session with Travis Ryan (We Believe) happened to be the last of a week straight of two co-writes per day. “I walked in and Travis had this concept of Ashes, and we knew immediately ‘God You just have just given us a gift.’ We definitely should not be focusing on this just for Easter, because victory of death, what a revelation! There are definitely areas of my life that have died . . . full on valley of dry bones. Jesus did not die so that things in me would remain dead. He longs to show off in the marriage that is dying. For those who struggle with self-harm issues, fill in the blank . . . we need Jesus. The goal is to prophetically proclaim this over people because I’ve needed it myself. The reality is, there is stuff in our past that needs to remain dead. But shame and condemnation is trying to keep dead that which God said ‘I gave that to you as a gift of life’. I believe those things, through the power of revelation, can be resurrected and that will lead people to the Lord. That’s huge!”
 
One thing is for sure; this sister has a gifting and a message from the Lord that will not easily go unheard. And the soul in her voice only solidifies the power behind the words she is singing. So if you haven’t already, check out her music today.
You can get Ashes here and keep up with what Dara is up to here.

If you’ve been attending a church with a contemporary bent for any length of time, then you’ve likely sung songs on a regular basis written by a gentleman named Jesse Reeves. Jesse has co-written on some of the most widely known worship songs of our generation such as How Great It Our God, Lord I Need You, and Our God - just to name a few. 

Growing up in the Bible Memory Association, Jesse’s spiritual life consisted mostly of rules and regulations, until September 23, 1990 when he met Jesus at the ages of 15 and his life was changed forever. A rancher’s son, his love for playing music left his father stumped, but he continued following his passion and played with a band all the way through college. Then in 1997, Jesse met a country boy from Grand Saline, TX named Chris Tomlin who asked him if he’d like to lead worship, to which Jesse responded in all sincerity that he didn’t know what that was. At this point in the contemporary worship movement, the term “worship leader” hadn’t really caught on. There were music ministers, and that definitely was not the route Jesse wanted to go. But the two had lunch and the rest was history. 

I, myself, was raised in the church as the daughter of a Baptist youth minister (or student pastor as they’re called these days), and I was finishing up my high school years in youth group right about the time all of this was taking place. In fact, much of the soundtrack to the season in my life when God called me to ministry and began shaping and forming my passion for leading worship was penned and recorded by these two Texas boys. So to find myself today sitting in an 8,000 sq. ft. mountain lodge at a writing camp with the likes of Jesse Reeves is a full-circle, what-even-is-my-life moment to say the least. 

Nevertheless, you better believe I took full advantage of the opportunity to sit down with Jesse and talk about his heart for worship, the worship leader, and this next generation that God is raising up. I asked him first about the role that worship has had in his life growing up and how it has evolved throughout his time in ministry. 

“If you’re talking about the expression of worship through music, growing up it was just hymns and they didn’t mean anything to me. But now looking back, I have a huge appreciation for my childhood and learning those songs, because I learned what it means to teach theology through lyrics. It’s a lost art and so I’m very passionate about trying to revive some of that. And I’ve done this long enough to see that everything is on a pendulum. When I first started playing, everything sounded like U2, and then everything sounded like Coldplay, and then everything sounded like Mumford & Sons, and now it’s probably like Chainsmokers. And I just always come back to the question of ‘If the Spirit of the living God lives inside of us, why aren’t we creating things that are original and better than what the world is doing, instead of trying to chase what they’re doing?’ I do understand the context of being relevant and playing stuff that’s going to resonate with people, but I always want to come back to what the Spirit of the living God wants to hear, not what we want to play.”

Over his 20+ years in the worship leading world, Jesse has stood on every platform and stage imaginable and in front of every crowd size imaginable. I would venture to guess that making that mental shift from event to event and church to church had to require some form of finesse and adaptability. So I asked him what it looked like for him to make that adjustment, especially as it relates to transitioning out of touring and back into the local church setting.

“I would say that I’ve worked my way all the way to the bottom, and I think it’s kind of where I want to be. I didn’t always want to be there and it wasn’t an easy journey. I have been to the mountain top of Christian music and definitely want to honor that, but I very specifically was called out of that. It was through a sermon that I heard from Tommy Nelson. He was preaching on the anointing of David as king. If you go back and read 1 Samuel 16, they are looking to anoint the next king of Israel. Samuel shows up and they have this parade of all of Jesse’s sons . . . this is Eliab, this is Abinadab, this is Shammah . . . they went through seven sons, to which Samuel’s response was that none of these are the king, do you have any others?  Jesse says that yes, he has one other son but that he was in the field tending the sheep. Now when I was listening to this sermon, I was on a run training for a marathon, so I was a good 15 miles from my house. Tommy Nelson said one statement and it was this. “What God is looking for in a man is a man that more concerned about the sheep than the parade.” And I don’t know why, but that’s when the Holy Spirit wrecked me and I literally started weeping. I was still running, but now I’m running with my hands in the air and I’m saying “Jesus, I’m listening.” On a public path by the way. People are passing me thinking that this guy has lost his mind. But that was a moment in my life when Jesus started trying to get my attention. Hear me say this, there is nothing wrong with the parade. God sent Samuel to the parade. There’s a time and a place for the parade. But our generation lives for the parade and there’s not enough people who care about the sheep. I feel like that’s my mission in life going forward, to simply care for sheep. The parade will take care of itself. So to bring it back around to the question, yes I’ve been in megachurches to now I have a house church of about 20 people that meets in my home and it’s awesome. And right now, my favorite worship leader on the planet is the girl who leads worship in my house, because she has an anointing on her, and to get 20 people to sing in a living room is actually way harder than getting 10,000 people to sing because it’s awkward, but it’s beautifully awkward. And she has an authority on her that she can pull this out of people and turn people’s eyes on Jesus in such a way that you forget there’s only 20 people in the room. That’s something I haven’t seen in a long time.”

Reeves has a strong passion for pouring into worship leaders and songwriters and has done so in different ways over the past several years since settling back down with his family in Austin, TX. We discussed the fact that it seems like every generation of worship leaders has something that really marks them. For our particular generation, we were a part of that group that sort of stepped in right as that transition from traditional to blended to contemporary was really gaining its momentum, and so maturing as a worship leader looked very different from what it does now. I asked Jesse what he thinks the “mark” is for this current generation of worship leaders taking up roles in the church and coming into their own as leaders, and what it might look like for them to reach their full potential. 

“While I don’t want to make a blanket statement about it, I do feel like we have a generation of people who looked at my generation and saw what we did and thought, “That’s really cool, I want to do that.” And so we have a large percent of churches with people filling the platform that wanted to do that because it was cool, instead of because they have a calling on their life from God. So honestly I think what’s marking this generation is that, but I’m also not a doomsday-er. I don’t think all is lost. I think what God is calling people to right now, and you can see it across the nation, God is calling people out who are authentic. And that is who is rising to the top. I read a book called The Forgotten Ways by Alan Hirsch and he says that this next generation wants three things . . . they want authenticity, they want community, and they want social justice. And if they don’t find those things in the church, they’re just not going to go. My generation will go to church just to check a box. Not this next generation. I think what is going to have to mark this generation is for true worship leaders to figure out how to reach them because they’re not going to come to us. Which means we’re going to have to lead worship not with just songs. We’re going to have to lead worship with our actions. So maybe God is raising up a new generation of worship leaders that has very little to do with music. Look at Romans 12:1.

Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God - this is your spiritual act of worship.

That’s our definition. That definition doesn’t say anything about music, it doesn’t say anything about songs. We’ve had a whole generation that defines worship by our songs. God defines our worship by the degree to which we present our bodies as a living sacrifice. So what I pray is that the next generation will lead the charge in that. That’s something I would be willing to follow.”

As you can imagine, there’s not a whole lot to say after that, except this . . . where are you pouring out? Where are you investing your resources and energy? Is it into the parade or is it into the sheep? This is probably a question that we as worship leaders need to ask and re-ask ourselves on a regular basis. Like Jesse said, neither is right or wrong and there is a time and place for both. But it is always worth checking in periodically to make sure we are spending ourselves where He wants us spending ourselves. The alternatively will leave us simply exhausted. 

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