Berlin : Springer, 2006

Berlin ; New York : Springer, [2006]

Berlin ; New York : Springer, [2005]

Manners, Ron (Ron B.)

Panel Dylan Schiemann (twitter github blog) Jamison Dance (twitter github blog) Joe Eames (twitter github blog) AJ O’Neal (twitter github blog) Charles Max Wood (twitter github Teach Me To Code Rails Ramp Up) Discussion 00:57 - Dylan Schiemann Introduction The Dojo Toolkit CEO of SitePen 01:14 - Dojo TD Ameritrade The Wall Street Journal JPMorgan Chase & Co TD Bank voro.com Esri 04:40 - Why is Dojo relevant today? Peter Higgins: #dadt (Dojo already did that) 07:00 - AMD and RequireJS Performance Benefits CommonJS 10:34 - Dijit Form Controls Layout Widgets Other Widgets (i.e. grids, rich text editor controls, trees, etc.) Polymer 15:32 - Browser Support The Awesome Bar Removing Code Aspect-oriented Programming 20:01 - Dojo 2 Dojo Mobile Responsive Dijits Local Storage Better Grid Widgets Cleaner APIs 32:52 - Marketing Dojo Dojo Tutorials Good APIs Demos Target Environments 27:55 - Graded Support Graded Browser Support - YUI Library 30:56 - Maintaining the old version while moving ahead with the new version 33:01 - Strict Mode dojo.declare 34:15 - Dojo and Node.js dojo/request 36:20 - The Dojo Foundation lodash The Intern 40:21 - Testing D.O.H.: Dojo Objective Harness Sauce Labs Chai 42:56 - Charting and Graphing & Vector Graphics DojoX voro.com GFX D3 Raphaël 46:41 - The History of Dojo and Prototype Picks Sexism in Video Games - This Female Gamer is Fed Up / from a woman's view / woman / Rape is in Grand Theft Auto Game (AJ) My Fair Lady (AJ) Moon (Jamison) Dr. Dog (Jamison) Warhammer Quest (Joe) Knights of the Old Republic (Joe) Ruins by Orson Scott Card (Joe) AngularJS Fundamentals (Joe’s Pluralsight Course) (Joe) Commit (Chuck) Authority | Nathan Barry (Chuck) The Intern (Dylan) FrozenJS (Dylan) hammer throw: 1986 Youri Sedykh's World Record Series (Dylan) Kundalini Yoga (Dylan) Arcosanti (Dylan) Ubud, Bali (Dylan) Insadong, Seoul, South Korea (Dylan) Next Week Burnout Transcript JAMISON:  This is my voice. CHUCK:  You keep it with you at all times, don’t you? JAMISON:  I do. Unless I go to a rock concert or something. Then I leave it there. [Hosting and bandwidth provided by the Blue Box Group. Check them out at Bluebox.net.]  [This episode is sponsored by Component One, makers of Wijmo. If you need stunning UI elements or awesome graphs and charts, then go to Wijmo.com and check them out.]  CHUCK:  Hey everybody, and welcome to Episode 62 of the JavaScript Jabber Show. This week on our panel, we have Jamison Dance. JAMISON:  Hi, guys. CHUCK:  Joe Eames. JOE:  Hey there. CHUCK:  AJ O’Neal. AJ:  Not coming at you live. Not at all. CHUCK:  I’m Charles Max Wood from DevChat.tv and we have a special guest this week. That’s Dylan Schiemann. So, do you want to introduce yourself real quick, Dylan? DYLAN:  Sure. Thanks Charles. I’m Dylan. I’m one of the founders of an open source project called the Dojo Toolkit. I’m also the CEO at SitePen, a company that builds web apps and provides JavaScript training and support. CHUCK:  Awesome. Dojo’s been around for a long time, hasn’t it? DYLAN:  Nine years. CHUCK:  Nine years. DYLAN:  Oh, yeah. Three lifetimes in the Internet age, I guess. CHUCK:  Does that make it older than jQuery? DYLAN:  It does, yes. JQuery, I think, started about seven years ago, maybe. Six or seven years ago. CHUCK:  I remember seeing a couple of websites built in Dojo way back in the day. I don’t remember exactly which ones they were. For some reason, I got the impression that it was a framework, but it’s more of a toolkit. It’s much more like jQuery than it is like, say, Backbone or Ember or any of those. DYLAN:  It’s kind of everything. You can use it as a simple toolkit like jQuery. You have DOM manipulation,

Angular Remote Conf and React Remote Conf

03:18 - Brian Mann Introduction

• Twitter
• GitHub

03:33 - Cypress.io

04:09 - Selenium

08:56 - Cypress vs Selenium

16:54 - Similarities: Cypress and Protractor

18:22 - Mocking API Data

20:40 - Getting Started with Cypress and The Migration Process

21:54 - Testing

30:31 - Handling Data on the Backend

34:16 - What’s coming next in Cypress?

JSJ 277: Dojo 2 with Dylan Schiemann and Kitson Kelly

This episode of JavaScript Jabber features panelists Aimee Knight, Cory House, and Charles Max Wood. They talk with Dylan Schiemann and Kitson Kelly about Dojo 2.

[00:02:03] Introduction to Dylan Schiemann

Dylan is the CEO at Sitepen and co-founder of the Dojo Toolkit.

[00:02:22] Introduction to Kitson 

Kitson is the CTO at Sitepen and project lead for Dojo 2.

[00:02:43] Elevator Pitch for Dojo

Dojo 1 has been around forever. Started back in 2004 as a way to solve the challenge of "I want to build something cool in a browser." Promises and web components were inspired by or created by Dojo. It's been a huge influence on the web development community.

Dojo 2 is a ground up re-write with ES 2015, TypeScript and modern API's. It's a modernized framework for Enterprise applications.

[00:04:29] How is Dojo different from other frameworks?

There's a spectrum: small libraries like React with an ecosystem and community of things you add to it to Angular which is closer to the MV* framework with bi-directional data binding. Vue lands somewhere in the middle. Dojo 2 is also somewhere in the middle as well. It's written in TypeScript and has embraced the TypeScript experience.

[00:06:00] Did the Angular 2 move influence the Dojo 2 development and vice-versa?

Dojo 2 had moved to TypeScript and 2 days later Angular announced that they were going to TypeScript. Angular also moved very quickly through their BETA phase, which caused some challenges for the Angular community.

With Dojo 2, they didn't start the public discussion and BETA until they knew much better what was and wasn't going to change. They've also been talking about Dojo 2 for 6 or 7 years.

The update was held up by adoption of ES6 and other technologies.

Dojo 1 was also responsible for a lot of the low-level underpinning that Angular didn't have to innovate on. Dojo 2 was built around a mature understanding of how web applications are built now.

People doing Enterprise need a little more help and assistance from their framework. Dojo provides a much more feature rich set of capabilities.

Angular could have pushed much more of TypeScript's power through to the developer experience. Dojo much more fully adopts it.

It's also easier if all of your packages have the same version number.

Call out to Angular 4 vs Angular 2.

[00:12:44] AMD Modules

Why use AMD instead of ES6 modules?

You can use both. Dojo 2 was involved in the creation of UMD. James Burke created UMD while working on Dojo.

ES6 modules and module loading systems weren't entirely baked when Dojo 2 started to reach maturity, so they went with UMD. It's only been a few months since Safari implemented the ES6 module system. Firefox and friends are still playing catchup.

The Dojo CLI build tool uses webpack, so it's mostly invisible at this point.

So, at this point, should I be using UMD modules? or ES6? Is there an advantage to using AMD?

With TypeScript you'd use ES6 modules, but UMD modules can be loaded on the fly.

[00:16:00] Are you using Grunt?

Internally, for tasks we use Grunt. But for users, we have a CLI tool that wraps around Webpack.

For package builds and CI, Grunt is used.

[00:18:30] What is the focus on Enterprise all about?

There are a lot of different challenges and complexities to building Enterprise apps. Dojo was the first framework with internationalization, large data grids, SVG charts, etc. Dojo has spend a long time getting this right. Many other systems don't handle all the edge cases.

Internationalization in Angular 2 or 4 seems unfinished.

Most Dojo users are building for enterprises like banks and using the features that handle large amounts of data and handle those use cases better.

[00:21:05] If most application frameworks have the features you listed, is there a set of problems it excels at?

The Dojo team had a hard look at whether there was a need for their framework since many frameworks allow you to build great applications. Do we want to invest into something like this?

React has internationalization libraries. But you'll spend a lot of time deciding which library to use and how well it'll integrate with everything else. A tradeoff in decision fatigue.

In the Enterprise, development isn't sexy. It's necessary and wants to use boring but reliable technology. They like to throw bodies at a problem and that requires reliable frameworks with easily understood decision points.

Producing code right is a strong case for TypeScript and they pull that through to the end user.

Many frameworks start solving a small set of problems, become popular, and then bolt on what they need to solve everything else...

Dojo tried to make sure it had the entire package in a clear, easy to use way.

You can build great apps with most of the big frameworks out there. Dojo has been doing this for long enough that they know where to optimize for maintainability and performance.

[00:29:00] Where is Dojo's sweet spot? 

The Sitepen Blog series on picking a framework

The biggest reason for using Dojo over the years is the data grid component.

They also claim to have the best TypeScript web development experience.

You may also want a component based system with the composition hassles of React.

The composability of components where one team may write components that another uses is a big thing in Dojo where one person doesn't know the entire app you're working on.

Theming systems is another selling point for Dojo.

[00:34:10] Ending the framework wars

Try Dojo out and try out the grid component and then export it to your Angular or React app.

There are a lot of frameworks out there that do a great job for the people who use them. The focus is on how to build applications better, rather than beating out the competition.

Sitepen has build apps with Dojo 2, Angular, React, Dojo + Redux, etc.

[00:39:01] The Virtual DOM used by Dojo

2 years ago or so they were looking for a Virtual DOM library that was small and written in TypeScript. They settled on Maquette.

The more you deal with the DOM directly, the more complex your components and libraries become.

Makes things simpler for cases like server side rendering getting fleshed out in BETA 3.

It also allows you to move toward something like React Native and WebVR components that aren't coupled to the DOM.

They moved away from RxJS because they only wanted observables and shimmed in (or polyfilled) the ES-Next implementation instead of getting the rest of the RxJS  that they're not using.

[00:46:40] What's coming next?

They're finishing Dojo 2. They're polishing the system for build UI components and architecture and structuring the app. They plan to release before the end of the year.

They're also wrapping up development on the Data Grid, which only renders what shows on the screen plus a little instead of millions of rows.

[00:49:08] Testing

They've got intern.

It pulls together unit testing, functional testing, continuous integration hooks, accessibility testing, etc.

It's rewritten in TypeScript to take advantage of modern JavaScript.

The Dojo CLI uses intern as the default test framework.

Kitson build the test-extras library to help with Dojo testing with intern.

Dojo Links

• dojo.io
• github.com/dojo/meta
• sitepen.com/blog
• gitter channel
• github.com/dylans
• twitter.com/dylans
• twitter.com/sitepen
• twitter.com/dojo
• github.com/kitsonk
• twitter.com/kitsonk

Picks

Cory

• Amateur vs Professional

Aimee

• DevFest Florida (use code 'jsjabber')

Chuck

• Taking some time off
• AudioTechnica ATR2100
• How to define your life purpose in 5 minutes

Dylan

• zenhub
• HalfStack Conference
• How to choose a framework series on the Sitepen Blog

Kitson

• Dunbar Number

MJS 033: Dylan Schiemann

Today's episode is a My JavaScript Story with Dylan Schiemann. Dylan talked about his contributions to the JavaScript community to what JavaScript is back in 2004. Listen to learn more about Dylan!

[01:10] – Introduction to Dylan Schiemann

Dylan was on episode 62 of JavaScript Jabber, which was about 4 years ago. We had him on to talk about the Dojo Toolkit.

[02:00] – How did you get into programming?

When Dylan was 7 or 8 years old, he and his father took basic programming class together. In Junior high, probably mid-1980’s, he received his first Commodore 64 computer. He picked up the Programmer’s Reference Guide, toppled on Assembly, and tried to write data to a tape drive. It got updated to a floppy drive. And then in high school, he took some Pascal classes. He learned the basics - ranging from BASIC, Pascal, and to Assembly.

[03:00] – How did you get into JavaScript?

As an undergraduate, Dylan studied Chemistry and Mathematics. He did some basic HTML and discovered the web roughly when he was a junior year in college. And then, he went to graduate school and studied Physical Chemistry at UCLA. He was studying the topology and reality of quasi-two-dimensional phone. If you imagine a bunch of beer bubbles at the top of a glass, and you spin it around really quickly, you watch how the bubbles rearrange as force is applied to it. He wanted to put his experiments on the web so he started learning this new language that had just been invented called JavaScript. So, he dropped out of graduate school a few years later. Eight years after that point in time, it was possible to show his experiments with Dojo and SVG.

[04:25] – How did you get into Dojo and the other technologies?

SitePen

Right after grad school, Dylan helped start a company called SitePen. That let him really learn how JavaScript works. He started doing some consulting work. And he started working with Alex Russell, who had a project called netWindows at the time, which is a predecessor to any JavaScript framework that most people have worked with.

Dojo

Dylan got together and decided to create a next generation version of the HTML toolkit, which ended up becoming Dojo back in 2004. Things that they created back then are now part of the language - asynchronous patterns such as Promises, or even modules, widgets, which led to the web components pack. Over the years, they’ve built on that and done various utilities for testing and optimizing applications.

[06:20] – Ideas that stood the test of time

A lot of the things that Dylan and his team did in Dojo were on the right path but first versions ended up iterating before they’ve met their way into the language. Other things are timing. They were there very early and but to tell people in 2005 and 2006 that you need to architect the front-end application met some confusion of why you would want to do that. According to him, they never created Dojo to say that they want to create the world’s leading framework.

[07:45] – JavaScript

Dylan no longer answers the question of, “Oh, JavaScript, you mean, Java?”

The expectations of 2004 were the hope of making something that might work in a browser. The expectation today is we are competing against every platform and trying to create the best possible software in the world, and do it in a way that’s distributable everywhere in the browser. The capabilities have grown. There are audio, video and real-time capabilities. They were ways to do those things but they were brutal and fragile. And now, we have real engineering solutions to many of those things but there are still going to be ways to do this. There were few people who are interested in this and maybe this wasn’t even their day job. But now, literally hundreds and thousands of engineers who write code in JavaScript every day.

Picks

Dylan Schiemann

• JavaScript user groups
• JavaScript conferences
• SeattleJS
• Phoenix TypeScript Meet-up
• London HalfStack

Charles Max Wood

• Focuster
• BusyCal
• Asana
• Trello

Panel:

• AJ O’Neal
• Aimee Knight
• Joe Eames
• Charles Max Wood

Special Guests: Chris Heilmann

In this episode, the panel talks with programmer, Chris Heilmann. He has written books about JavaScript, in addition to writing a blog about it and is an educator about this program.  He currently resides in Berlin, Germany. Let’s welcome our special guest and listen to today’s episode!

Show Topics:

2:19 – Chuck talks.

2:41 – Chris: He has talked about JavaScript in Berlin upon an invitation. You can get five different suggestions about how to use JavaScript. The best practices, I have found, are on the projects I am on now. JavaScript was built in ten days. My goal is to help people navigate through JavaScript and help them feel not disenfranchised. 

5:47 – Aimee: The overall theme is...

5:54 – Panelist: I really like what you said about helping people not feeling disenfranchised.

6:47 – Chris: There is a lot of peer pressure at peer conferences

7:30 – Aimee chimes in with some comments.

7:50: Chris: I think we need to hunt the person down that put...

8:03 – Panelist: A good point to that is, I try to avoid comments like, “Well, like we ALL know...”

8:27 – Chris: There are things NOT to say on stage. It happens, but we don’t want to say certain things while we are teaching people. We are building products with different groups, so keep that in mind.

9:40 – Aimee: My experience in doing this is that I have found it very rewarding to share embarrassing experiences that I’ve had. My advice would to tell people to let their guard down. It’s encouraging for me.

10:26 – Chris: It helps to show that you are vulnerable and show that you are still learning, too. We are all learning together. 90% of our job is communicating with others.

11:05 – Chuck: Now, I do want to ask this...

11:35 – Chris answers.

12:24 – What makes you say that? (Question to Chris)

12:25 – Chris answers.

13:55 – Chuck: The different systems out there are either widely distributed or...

You will have to work with other people. There is no way that people can make that on their own. If you can’t work with other people, then you are a hindrance.

14:31 – Aimee chimes in.

14:53 – Chris: They have to be very self-assured. I want to do things that are at the next level. Each developer has his or her own story. I want to move up the chain, so I want to make sure these developers are self-assured.

16:07 – Chris: Back to the article...

18:26 – Chuck: Yes, I agree. Why go and fight creating a whole system when it exists.

18:54 – Chris chimes in with some comments.

19:38 – Panelist: I still use console logs.

19:48 – Chris: We all do, but we have to...

19:55 – Aimee: In the past year, I can’t tell you how much I rely on this. Do I use Angular? Do I learn Vue? All those things that you can focus on – tools.

10:21 – Chris: We are talking about the ethics of interfaces. Good code is about accessibility, privacy and maintainability, among others. Everything else is sugar on top. We are building products for other people.

22:10 – Chuck: That is the interesting message in your post, and that you are saying: having a deep, solid knowledge of React (that is sort of a status thing...). It is other things that really do matter. It’s the impact we are having. It’s those things that will make the difference. Those things people will want to work with and solves their problems.

23:00 – Chris adds his comments. He talks about Flash.

24:05 – Chris: The librarian motto: “I don’t know everything, but I can look “here” to find the answer.” We don’t know everything.

24:31 – Aimee: Learn how to learn.

24:50 – Chris: There is a big gap in the market. Scratch is a cool tool and it’s these puzzle pieces you put together. It was hard for me to use that system. No, I don’t want to do that. But if you teach the kids these tools then that’s good. 

24:56 – Chuck: Here is the link, and all I had to do was write React components.

26:12 – Chris: My first laptop was 5x more heavy then this one is. Having access to the Internet is a blessing.

27:24 – Advertisement

28:21 – Chuck: Let’s bring this back around. If someone has gone through boot camp, you are recommending that they get use to know their editor, debugging, etc.

Chris: 28:47 – Chris: Yes, get involved within your community. GitHub. This is a community effort. You can help. Writing code from scratch is not that necessary anymore. Why rebuild something if it works. Why fix it if it’s not broken?

31:00 – Chuck talks about his experience.

31:13 – Chris continues his thoughts.

Chris: Start growing a community.

32:01 – Chuck: What ways can people get involved within their community?

32:13 – Chris: Meetup. There are a lot of opportunities out there. Just going online and seeing where the conferences

34:08 – Chris: It’s interesting when I coach people on public speaking. Sharing your knowledge and learning experience is great!

34:50 – Chuck: If they are learning how to code then...by interacting with people you can get closer to what you need/want.

35:30 – Chris continues this conversation.

35:49 – Chris: You can be the person that helps with x, y, z. Just by getting your name known then you can get a job offer.

36:23 – Chuck: How do you find out what is really good content – what’s worth your time vs. what’s not worth your time?

36:36 –Chris says, “That’s tricky!” Chris answers the question.

37:19: Chris: The best things out there right now is...

38:45 – Chuck: Anything else that people want to bring up?

39:00 – Chris continues to talk.

42:26 – Aimee adds in her thoughts.

Aimee: I would encourage people to...

43:00 – Chris continues the conversation.

Chris: Each project is different, when I build a web app is different then when I build a...

45:07 – Panelist: I agree. You talked about abstractions that don’t go away. You use abstractions in what you use. At some point, it’s safe to rly on this abstraction, but not this one. People may ask themselves: maybe CoffeeScript wasn’t the best thing for me.

46:11 – Chris comments and refers to jQuery.

48:58 – Chris continues the conversation.

Chris: I used to work on eight different projects and they worked on different interfaces. I learned about these different environments. This is the project we are now using, and this will like it for the end of time. This is where abstractions are the weird thing. What was the use of the abstraction if it doesn’t have longevity? I think we are building things too soon and too fast.

51:04 – Chris: When I work in browsers and come up with brand new stuff.

52:21 – Panelist: Your points are great, but there are some additional things we need to talk about. Let’s take jQuery as an example. There is a strong argument that if you misuse the browser...

53:45 – Chris: The main issue I have with jQuery is that people get an immediate satisfaction. What do we do besides this?

55:58 – Panelist asks Chris further questions.

56:25 – Chris answers.

Chris: There are highly frequent websites that aren’t being maintained and they aren’t maintainable anymore.

57:09 – Panelist: Prototypes were invented because...

57:51 – Chris: It’s a 20/20 thing.

58:04 – Panelist: Same thing can be said about the Y2K.

58:20 – Panelist: Yes, they had to solve that problem that day. The reality is...

58:44 – Chris: We learned from that whole experience.

1:00:51 – Chris: There was a lot of fluff around it.

1:01:35 – Panelist: Being able to see the future would be a very helpful thing.

1:01:43 – Chris continues the conversation.

1:02:44 – Chuck: How do people get ahold of you?

1:03:04 – Twitter is probably the best way.

1:03:32 – Let’s go to picks!

1:03:36 - Advertisement

Links:

• JavaScript
• So you Learned Java Script, what now? – Article
• WebHint
• Article by James Sinclair
• Clank!
• Angular
• GitHub
• Meetup
• Chris Heilmann’s Twitter
• Chris Heilmann’s Website
• Chris Heilmann’s Medium
• Chris Heilmann’s LinkedIn
• Chris Heilmann
• Chris Heilmann’s GitHub
• Smashing Magazine – Chris Heilmann
• jQuery
• CoffeeScript
• React
• Elixir

Sponsors:

• Kendo UI
• Sentry
• Digital Ocean
• Cache Fly
•  

Picks :

Amiee

• Hacker News -  How to deal with dirty side effects in your pure functional JavaScript

AJ

• KeyBase

Joe

• Framework Summit
• Clank
• ASMR

Charles

• Get a Coder Job Course
• The Iron Druid Chronicles
• Framework Summit

Chris

• Web Unleashed Toronto
• Kurzgesagt
• It Is Just You, Everything’s Not Shit

Panel:

• Aimee Knight
• AJ O’Neal
• Charles Max Wood

Special Guest: PJ Evans

In this episode, the panel talks with PJ Evans who is a course developer and an instructor through Manning’s course titled, “Node.js in Motion.” This course is great to learn the fundamentals of Node, which you can check out here! The panel and PJ talk about this course, his background, and current projects that PJ is working on. Check out today’s episode to hear more!

Show Topics:

0:00 – Advertisement: KENDO UI

0:36 – Chuck: Welcome and our panel consists of Aimee, AJ, myself, and our special guest is PJ Evans. Tell us about yourself and your video course! NODE JS in Motion is the title of the course. Can you tell us more?

1:29 – PJ: It’s a fantastic course.

2:25 – Chuck: You built this course and there is a lot to talk about.

2:36 – Aimee: Let’s talk about Node and the current state. 

2:50 – Chuck: Here’s the latest features, but let’s talk about where do you start with this course? How do you get going with Node? What do people need to know with Node?

3:20 – Aimee.

3:24 – PJ talks about Node and his course!

4:02 – PJ: The biggest headache with Node is the...

4:13 – Chuck.

4:19 – PJ: I am sure a lot of the listeners are familiar with callback hell.

4:50 – Aimee: Let’s talk about the complexities of module support in Node!

5:10 – PJ: It’s a horrible mess.

5:17 – Aimee: Maybe not the tech details but let’s talk about WHAT the problem is?

5:31 – PJ: You are talking about Proper Native ES6 right?

They are arguing about how to implement it. 

6:11 – PJ: My advice is (if you are a professional) is to stick with the LT6 program. No matter how tensing those new features are!

6:46 – Aimee: It could be outdated but they had to come back and say that there were tons of complexities and we have to figure out how to get there.

7:06 – PJ: They haven’t found an elegant way to do it.

7:15 – Panel: If it’s a standard why talk about it?

Seriously – if this is a standard why not implement THE standard?

7:38 – PJ.

8:11 – Panel.

8:17 – Aimee: I would love to talk about this, though!

8:24 – Chuck: I want to talk about the course, please.

8:30 – PJ.

8:54 – Chuck: We will keep an eye on it.

9:05 – PJ.

9:16 – PJ: How is it on the browser-side?

9:33 – Aimee: I don’t want to misspeak.

9:41 – Chuck: I don’t know how complete the forms are.

9:49 – Aimee: I don’t want to misspeak.

9:56 – PJ: I just found the page that I wanted and they are calling it the .MJS or aka the Michael Jackson Script. You can do an import from...

Some people think it’s FINE and others think that it’s a TERRIBLE idea.

10:42 – Chuck: “It sounds like it’s a real THRILLER!”

10:52 – Panel.

11:25 – Panel: When you start calling things the Michael Jackson Solution you know things aren’t well.

11:44 – Aimee: Just to clarify for users...

11:57 – Chuck: I want to point us towards the course: NODE.JS.

Chuck asks two questions.

12:34 – PJ: The concepts aren’t changing, but the information is changing incredibly fast. The fundamentals are fairly settled.

13:22 – Chuck: What are those things?

13:28 – PJ talks about how he structured the course and he talks about the specifics.

15:33 – Chuck: Most of my backend stuff is done in Ruby. Aimee and AJ do more Java then I do.

15:55 – Panel: I think there is something to understanding how different Node is. I think that Node is a very fast moving train. Node has a safe place and that it’s good for people to know about this space.

16:34 – Aimee: Not everyone learns this way, but for me I like to understand WHY I would want to use Node and not another tool. For me, this talk in the show notes really helped me a lot. That’s the core and the nature of NODE.

17:21 – PJ: Yes, absolutely. Understanding the event loop and that’s aimed more towards people from other back ends. Right from the beginning we go over that detail: Here is how it works, we give them examples, and more.

18:08 – Aimee: You can do more than just create APIs.

Aimee mentions Vanilla Node.

18:50 – PJ: To get into frameworks we do a 3-line server. We cover express, and also Sequelize ORM.

19:45 – Advertisement – Sentry.io

20:43 – Chuck: I never used Pug.

20:45 – PJ: PUG used to be called JADE.

20:56 – Aimee.

21:14 – PJ: Express does that for you and I agree with you. I advocate a non-scripted approach, I like when frameworks have a light touch.

22:05 – Aimee: That’s what I liked about it. No offense, Chuck, but for me I didn’t like NOT knowing a lot of what was not happening under the hood. I didn’t want to reinvent the wheel, but I wanted to build at a lower level.

22:40 – PJ: I had the same experience. I wanted to figure out why something wasn’t working.

23:24 – Panel: I had a friend who used Rails...he was cautious to make a switch. This past year he was blown away with how much simpler it was and how fast things were.

24:05 – Aimee: I feel like if you want to learn JavaScript then Node might be easier on the frontend.

24:21 – Chuck: No pun intended.

No, but I agree. I like about Rails is that you had well-understood patterns. But the flipside is that you have abstractions...

To a certain degree: what did I do wrong? And you didn’t follow the pattern properly.

25:57 – Panel: With Node you get a little bit of both. To me it’s a more simple approach, but the downside is that you have 100’s of 1,000’s of modules that almost identical things. When you start reaching out to NPM that...

26:29 – PJ: Yes the module system of NPM is the best/worst thing about NODE. I don’t have an answer, honestly.

There is a great article written that made me turn white. Here is the article!

28:12 – Panel: The same thing happened with the ESLint. That was the very problem that he was describing in the article.

28:50 – PJ: Yep, I put that in the chat there – go ahead and read it! It’s not a problem that’s specific to Node, there are others. It’s the way we do things now.

29:23 – Chuck: We have the NODE Security project. A lot of stuff go into NPM everyday.

29:43 – PJ: We cover those things in the course.

29:53 – Chuck: It’s the reality. Is there a place that people get stuck?

30:00 – PJ answers the question.

30:23 – Aimee.

30:55 – PJ: I am coding very similar to my PHP days.

31:20 – Aimee.

32:02 – PJ: To finish off my point, I hope people don’t loose sight.

32:18 – Aimee.

32:20 – PJ: I am working on a project that has thousands of requests for...

32:53 – Chuck: Anything you WANTED to put into the course, but didn’t have time to?

33:05 – PJ: You can get pretty technical. It’s not an advanced course, and it won’t turn you into a rock star. This is all about confidence building. It’s to understand the fundamentals.

It’s a runtime of 6 hours and 40 minutes – you aren’t just watching a video. You have a transcript, too, running off on the side. You can sit there and type it out w/o leaving – so it’s a very interactive course.

34:26 – Chuck: You get people over the hump. What do you think people need to know to be successful with Node?

34:38 – PJ answers the question.

PJ: I think it’s a lot of practice and the student to go off and be curious on their own terms.

35:13 – Chuck: You talked about callbacks – I am thinking that one is there to manage the other?

35:31 – PJ answers the question.

PJ: You do what works for you – pick your style – do it as long as people can follow you. Take the analogy of building a bridge.

36:53 – Chuck: What are you working on now?

37:00 – PJ: Educational tool called SCHOOL PLANNER launched in Ireland, so teachers can do their lesson planning for the year and being built with Express.

Google Classroom and Google Calendar.

39:01 – PJ talks about Pi and 4wd. See links below.

40:09 – Node can be used all over the place!

40:16  - Chuck: Yes, the same can be said for other languages. Yes, Node is in the same space.

40:31 – PJ: Yep!

40:33 – Chuck: If people want to find you online where can they find you?

40:45 – PJ: Twitter! Blog!

41:04 – Picks!

41:05 – Advertisement – eBook: Get a coder job!

Links:

• JavaScript
• jQuery
• React
• Elixir
• Elm
• Vue
• ESLint
• Node.js
• Node Security Project
• Node Security Project - Medium
• Manning Publications: Course by PJ Evans
• PUG
• JSConf EU – talk with Philip Roberts
• Medium Article by David Gilbertson
• Hackster.io – Pi Car
• Pi Moroni
• Holding a Program in One’s Head
• PJ Evans’ Twitter

Sponsors:

• Kendo UI
• Sentry
• Cache Fly
• Get a Coder Job

Picks:

Aimee

• Paul Graham - Blog

AJ

• Rust

Charles

• Tweet Mash-up
• The Diabetes Code

PJ

• Music - Max Richter

Sponsors

• Sentry use the code “devchat” for 2 months free on Sentry small plan

• CacheFly

Host: Charles Max Wood

Joined By Special Guest: Christian Heilmann

Episode Summary

Christian is a Principal Software Development Engineer at Microsoft, working out of Berlin, Germany.

Links

• JavaScript Jabber 332: “You Learned JavaScript, Now What?” with Chris Heilmann

• https://christianheilmann.com/

• Christian's Twitter

• Christian's LinkedIn

• Christian's Medium

• Christian's GitHub

• https://www.facebook.com/javascriptjabber

• https://twitter.com/JSJabber

• https://www.facebook.com/DevChattv

Picks

Christian Heilmann:

• https://webhint.io/

• http://csstricks.com/

• https://dev.to/

• https://codepen.io/

• Microsoft Edge Insider

Charles Max Wood:

• Privacy Badger - Google Chrome

• Emacs

• Adventures in DevOps - new podcast on https://devchat.tv/

Guests Chris heilmann and Zohair Ali are developers for Microsoft working on the Edge project. Today they are talking about Edge on Chromium and the future of developer tools. Edge will now be built in Chromium rather than being its own engine, aligning it more with what is being used on the open web right now. The Edge team wanted to seize the opportunity to bring something into the Chromium project based on the needs of real users and contribute to the open source web. Edge on Chromium won’t be limited to Windows 10 either, but will be available on Mac, Windows 7, and Windows 8. This project is still in beta with no set release date, so the Edge team is looking for people to test it out on Mac and tell them how it works. 

Chris and Zohair talk about the different parts of a web browser and what distinguishes Chrome from Chromium.  Chromium is not just a platform, it’s an entire browser that you can install. Google adds a bunch of Google services to Chromium, such as being able to sign into your Google account,  and that’s how you get Google Chrome. Similarly, the new Edge adds its own features on top of Chromium, so you can sign into your Microsoft account. By now the browser engines are so similar to each other that the users are looking for the user experience, interface, and services around it, so it made more sense for the Edge team to contribute to Chromium than to maintain their own engine and help it improve.

Chris and Zohair talk about some of the features in Edge on Chromium. One service they’re particularly excited about is the Collections feature, where you can drag images, text, etc into Collections and export it to Excel or Word. Collections was inspired by what users need, and they talk about some of the different use cases for it. The new Edge on Chromium will also have an IE mode for products that still require IE 11. If you define what services need IE 11, Edge will open an IE 11 tab within the browser so you will not have to jump between browsers. Unfortunately, this feature is only available on Windows. Edge on Chromium will also offer an integration with VS Code, called Elements for VS Code, which takes part of the developer tools from Edge and puts it inside VS Code. Since the tools are based on Chromium, it stays in the same context all the time so you don’t have to jump back and forth, and you can see the changes live in your browser. This feature is in beta right now and they are looking for people to test it. 

The Edge team talks about their process for creating tools. They are working on putting their tools into other languages so that they are accessible to more people. They talk about how they want to avoid creating Edge specific tools as much as possible because they want to make it better for everybody. One of their biggest struggles is everybody demands developer tools, but nobody wants to contribute, so they don’t have as much feedback and not as much outside contribution. That’s why they keep calling for people to try out the new Edge on Chromium and give them feedback. They want to make that change more transparent so that they build things that people want. They will have to make some of their own tools, but they make sure that they don’t have any third party dependencies. They mention that all Chrome extensions are compatible with Edge, so if it’s available in the Chrome webstore, you can add it to Edge, you just have to be sure to allow it. They talk about some of the testing tools available. The show concludes with a discussion of the fate of Chakra Node. 

Panelists

• AJ O’Neal

• Aimee Knight

• Dan Shapir

• Steve Edwards

With special guests: Chris Heilmann and Zohair Ali

Sponsors

• Tidelift

• Sentry use the code “devchat” for 2 months free on Sentry’s small plan

• Views on Vue

Links

• Chromium

• Microsoft Edge Insider

• Microsoft Chakra Core

• Elements for VS Code

• MS Edge Driver

• Puppeteer 

Follow DevChatTV on Facebook and Twitter

Picks

Aimee Knight:

• Cypress testing library

Steve Edwards: 

• CSS Tricks Screencast episode 174: Using Local Overrides in Devtools

Dan Shapir:

• The Chronicles of Amber

AJ O’Neal:

• The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages

• Lover by Taylor Swift

Chris Heilmann:

• The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel

• TabNine

• doesthedogdie.com

Zohair Ali:

• Saga graphic novel series

Smardon, Richard C., author

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Hamann, Gerrit, author

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Basel ; Boston : Birkhäuser, [2007]

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Cambridge, Mass. : National Bureau of Economic Research, 2019

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Rotch Library - HT384.A35 A3195 2018

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Fresno, CA : Alliant International University, California School of Professional Psychology, 2008

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Feldmann, Horst

Hofmann, Angelika H., 1965-

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